Windows 8

Probleme generale legate de sistemul de operare Windows (instalare, setari, registry, control panel, securitate, administrare, noutati Vista).
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Marius Bancila
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Re: Windows 8

Post by Marius Bancila » 15 Sep 2011, 23:13



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Re: Windows 8

Post by neagu_laurentiu » 16 Sep 2011, 08:30

Pana la urma se pot crea aplicatii GUI native in C++ pentru WinRT ? Eu inteleg ca numai in C++/CLI:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 85%29.aspx

LE: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/BUILD/B ... /TOOL-532T

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Ovidiu Cucu
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Re: Windows 8

Post by Ovidiu Cucu » 16 Sep 2011, 10:16

C++ Reloaded:
Din C++ Component Extensions: The New Face of COM
"In addition to classes, C++ Component Extensions supports structs."
Cool! M-am linistit... avem totusi si struct(uri) in (WinRT)C++! :wacko:
neagu_laurentiu wrote:Pana la urma se pot crea aplicatii GUI native in C++ pentru WinRT ? Eu inteleg ca numai in C++/CLI:
Pai mai conteaza? Dupa cum vezi, suporta si structuri... :biggrin:

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Ovidiu Cucu » 16 Sep 2011, 10:58

Acuma serios:
Observ ca MS-ul n-a renuntat la experimente din seria Vista, Office 2007 si... .NET.
Au parale deci isi permit.
Sper totusi ca cineva, acolo sus, sa fie suficient de inspirat sa decida continuarea platformei NT.
Sa lase asazisul "Windows 8" pentru tablete, smartfoane si automate de scara si eventual sa-l redenumeasca cu orice altceva nu contine "Windows": "MS Metro 1-2-3", whatever else...

// just my two cents.

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Re: Windows 8

Post by neagu_laurentiu » 16 Sep 2011, 11:08

Pai Steve Ballmer era foarte fericit de noul trend propus cand a vorbit la Anaheim. Ca de altfel si cei din echipa VC++.

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Ovidiu Cucu » 16 Sep 2011, 11:12

Pai, nu degeaba si-a dat Bill demisia... :biggrin:

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Ovidiu Cucu » 16 Sep 2011, 11:31

Marius Bancila wrote:Da, dar vorbim doar de aplicatiile immersive. Astea sunt doar pentru tablete si pentru oamenii care folosesc computerul sa citeasca mail, sa verifice vremea si sa se uite la pozele sharuite de prieteni. Nu vad o aplicatie profesionala, complexa, scrisa ca aplicatie immersive.
Pentru ce atata munca? Nu mai bine mutau IE, Outlook si PowerPoint direct in kernel? :biggrin:

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Re: Windows 8

Post by neagu_laurentiu » 16 Sep 2011, 11:32

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Ovidiu Cucu » 16 Sep 2011, 12:02

neagu_laurentiu wrote:MFC no.
Of course "MFC no", because WinRT...
...doesn’t just sit on top of the operating system; it effectively is the operating system. There is nothing between it and the kernel itself. As such, there is no way to back-port it to older operating systems without fundamentally altering them in the process.
In condititle date, cine s-ar mai apuca sa rescrie cam tot ce s-a scris in MFC din '92 incoace?

Ma intreb, tot in conditiile date, ce "subset"-uri vor fi portate din Win32 si ATL.
WinMain (pardon, WinRTMain :)) si CStringT?...

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Re: Windows 8

Post by neagu_laurentiu » 16 Sep 2011, 12:34

Ovidiu Cucu wrote:ce "subset"-uri vor fi portate din Win32 si ATL.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 85%29.aspx

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Silviu Ardelean » 16 Sep 2011, 14:46

Am citit articolele si as sublinia cateva aspecte ce mi s-au parut mai interesante si bine-venite:
  • - Every object in the WinRT API supports reflection so that even dynamic languages such as JavaScript can use them efficiently. - sounds good; up to modern languages (C#/Java)
    - Metro applications written with XAML and C++ do not run on top of .NET, they get compiled directly to x86 just like any other Visual C++ application
    - Libraries used by modern C++ applications such as Boost are supported.
    - Calling native functions from .NET usually involves building up structures and manipulating pointers. Under WinRT all APIs are exposed as objects that C# and VB can consume directly. This puts .NET developers on level footing with C++ developers.
Aspecte la care inca am niste dubii ar fi:
  • - Another library that didn’t make it into WinRT is GDI. If an application is going to use the Metro interface it needs to do so from top to bottom, it appears that mixing Metro and classic user interfaces is not possible.
    - The fourth major language for Windows 8 is JavaScript. While it doesn’t use XAML, it does have direct access to the underlying WinRT API just like native and .NET applications. This isn’t just a container like PhoneGap, JavaScript developers get the same rich API that other developers use.
    - All Metro applications run within WinRT’s app container and thus are monitored by the system broker, even those written in C++. The idea is to limit the ability of applications to damage the system. While probably not impossible, building malware with WinRT will be much harder than it is in Win32.
Totodata, mai ales din prezentarea lui Herb, remarc ca incet, incet cei de la MS aduc C++/CLI-ul pe podium, in lumina reflectoarelor.

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Re: Windows 8

Post by neagu_laurentiu » 16 Sep 2011, 15:12

Silviu Ardelean wrote:- Metro applications written with XAML and C++ do not run on top of .NET, they get compiled directly to x86 just like any other Visual C++ application
Deocamdata nu am vazut asta in documentatia oficiala. Stiu ca pot scrie o aplicatie ce foloseste Direct2D si compatibila cu Metro insa eu ma refer strict la Windows.UI.Xaml.*

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Ovidiu Cucu » 16 Sep 2011, 15:38

Decocamdata, vad o multime de comentarii gen:
  • So they turned C++ into some retarded C# stepbrother?
  • This is a major fail, IMO
  • Hey Microsoft, wake up!!
  • this bullshit will never be accepted by the c++ community
  • lol. what's this? C#++?
  • horrible
  • ...
Bineinteles, nu se putea fara entuziasti:
Finally, we'll be able to use C++ with XAML. And it's all native. Full speed, full power of C++.

// LOL cu L mare :).

Sursa: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/BUILD/B ... /TOOL-532T

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Re: Windows 8

Post by neagu_laurentiu » 16 Sep 2011, 15:49

If you are familiar with C++/CLI, you will notice that the Component Extensions look very similar to C++/CLI syntax. However, in a Metro style app or Windows Runtime component, all the C++ code is native. The /Zw compiler option causes the Component Extensions to be compiled for Windows Runtime. The /cli compiler option causes them to be compiled for C++/CLI. Currently, C++/CLI is not supported for Metro style apps
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 85%29.aspx

M-am lamurit si eu intr-un tarziu ca au inventat alt limbaj.

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Re: Windows 8

Post by Marius Bancila » 16 Sep 2011, 17:26

neagu_laurentiu wrote:Pana la urma se pot crea aplicatii GUI native in C++ pentru WinRT ? Eu inteleg ca numai in C++/CLI:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 85%29.aspx

LE: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/BUILD/B ... /TOOL-532T
Nu e C++/CLI, e C++ Component Extensions, sau C++/CX. Sintaxa seamana cu C++/CLI, pentru ca a fost mai usor de refolosit codul pentru compilatorul deja existent, insa limbajele sunt diferite. Exista si C++/CLI si C++/CX. C++/CX se poate folosi doar pentru a dezvolta aplicatii pentru WinRT. Rezultatul compilarii unei aplicatii C++/CX e 100 nativ. Nu se pot scrie applicatii C++ "pure" pentru WinRT.
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